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  • #76
    i wonder how welcome canoeists might be at the SRT drop-in clinic in Welshpool next week?? there's one for flipper, not far from Llangollen.

    Comment


    • #77
      Its finally been made clear then

      “It is true that some witnesses have suggested that ancient rights of navigation and access
      exist on all rivers that are physically navigable. There is however, no modern judicial
      precedent which supports this, and whilst we have considered the views of these
      witnesses with interest, we cannot, for the purpose of our inquiry, base our
      recommendations on a view of the law which is at odds with the one that is generally
      accepted”
      and

      The report also set out in detail the Assembly’s understanding of the current application of
      the current legal position in Wales and concludes that:-
      “Unless a [statutory] public right of navigation exists, or the owner of the river bed, and/or
      owner of the fishing rights where appropriate has given permission, then anyone who
      travels along the stretch of water is committing trespass.

      Comment


      • Angut's Avatar
        Angut commented
        Editing a comment
        This report was in 2010 before the PRN on all flowing water was asserted. In reply to an FOI request WAG tell me that there is no documentation to show they have taken legal advice on this matter so they are not a reliable source of information. My guess is that they just said what SMS told them to say

        In any case the Welsh assembly have no powers to determine the law of common law rights in the joint jurisdiction of England and Wales. Only the Parliament at Westminster can do that. Defra have no recorded policy on the issue of navigation on unregulated watercourses. (reply to FOI )

        Don't get your hopes up lads
        Has anyone heard any more about AT taking the BCU to court? Or have they run away again?
        Last edited by Angut; 23-11-14, 07:54 PM. Reason: typo

      • Geoff Maynard's Avatar
        Geoff Maynard commented
        Editing a comment
        Asserted Great word. Means sweet fa though. The law is the law.

    • #78
      Got a link to the full document please SF?

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      • Comment


        • #80
          I dont believe that NRW actually said anything about trespass, nor water ownership, nor any of the angling spin. They did (rather concerningly) suggest that the "generally accepted" view is one that is not the one of the public or the most educated on the subject. Goes to show the strength of angling lobbying really.

          In regards to WDP (evidently just a new name for WUF in the north) i doubt you have seen this interesting paragraph of joy from the welsh government (not NRW);

          "Colleagues from Natural Resources Wales (NRW), who administer the Splash fund, have indicated that some of the language used by the Welsh Dee Partnership did not embrace the idea of cooperation and shared use which the Welsh Government expects. This is something that NRW are seeking to resolve"

          Their public reply which was exactly as suspected (generic defence of further funding to Wye Usk Foundation corporation) doesnt seem to reflect the movement happening behind closed doors - a movement where the public are gaining ground over greed and elitism of angling bodies. A step forward for welsh tourism and the welsh people. I for one am pleased to see this (small) step towards supporting the public access to government owned water.

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          • Geoff Maynard's Avatar
            Geoff Maynard commented
            Editing a comment
            So you think the PDF that SF posted is a forgery? Perhaps you should report it to the police. It's either the Welsh Govts stance or it's not.

          • stealth_fox's Avatar
            stealth_fox commented
            Editing a comment
            I think he knows what it said Geoff it was addressed to him

        • #81
          Originally posted by typicalpaddler View Post
          "Colleagues from Natural Resources Wales (NRW), who administer the Splash fund, have indicated that some of the language used by the Welsh Dee Partnership did not embrace the idea of cooperation and shared use which the Welsh Government expects. This is something that NRW are seeking to resolve"
          you'll probably find that's just about the wording of the sign. there were similar problems elsewhere.

          Comment


          • #82
            More friendly canoeing folk

            https://www.facebook.com/WatersofWales.WoW

            Comment


            • #83
              10,000 signatures from a claimed million plus UK canoeists. does that make it less than 1% of them wanting more access to rivers?
              on a brighter note, most weekends so far of this spawning season the upper Wye has been at or over the red line on the Rhayader gauge, putting the majority of canoeists off. unfortunately, there don't seem to be many salmon spawning yet.
              Last edited by brickbatt; 22-12-14, 10:34 AM.

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              • #84
                here’s the latest from andy biddulph, still doing his thing.

                http://andybiddulph.co.uk/ESW/Files/...t_Case_law.pdf

                but more worrying is this post on UKRGB which seems to suggest a crown court judge has accepted douglas caffyn’s theory.

                This is absolutely cutting edge stuff in that we have already quoted Doug Caffyn’s work and this has been accepted [we think] by the crown court first time around.
                http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/f...p?f=3&t=118006

                the canoeists regard this as a test case which will set a legal precedent for other rivers around the country. does anyone from AT know about this, as the court case is a highways issue and nothing to do with fishing or is this their (the canoeists) plan, to get a crown court judge to accept caffyn’s theory without any objections from anglers?

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                • Geoff Maynard's Avatar
                  Geoff Maynard commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Yes, The ATr and FL have been informed, though as it's a legal job I would guess Fish Legal already knew.
                  I wish they would get some test cases sorted out - it would be nice to have some judgements to help force the authorities to do their jobs.

                • stealth_fox's Avatar
                  stealth_fox commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I wouldn't assume that Fish Legal are that much 'in touch'

                  time for some action on their part of they are

              • #85
                here’s the latest EA advice for canoeists on the Wye with links to code of conduct and more.

                https://www.gov.uk/information-to-he...-the-river-wye

                and here’s what the canoeists think about it.

                http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...707#post577707

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                • #86
                  They are not happy bunnies are they

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                  • #87
                    Well the canoeing season has started with a vengeance. The first of the paper topped walnut whips {in one instance accompanied by a pair of crutty underpants} appeared a week or so ago but on Saturday last I encountered 3 men drinking on the bank. As there were no fishermen about I just acknowledged them as I passed by thinking that they would soon be gone. On my return an hour later they had indeed left but from a distance I could see smoke rising and found that they had lit a fire for cooking and had just left it blazing away with no attempt to put it out. These were not kids but men in their thirties. Will there ever be any chance of policing the activities of canoeists? Perhaps those who have benefited from Splash Funding would like to do it.

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                    • #88
                      coming to a river near you on june 15th, a "celebration paddle"

                      http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...105#post580105

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